DISCOURSES & TALKS BY MEHER BABA

 

EXISTENCE OF MATTER

 

 

 

28 March 1929

 

On Thursday, 28 March, one of the mandali asked Baba about the existence of matter, questioning, "You say that there is nothing but God, but you cannot deny that matter exists."

 

 "Yes, I do," Baba replied. "I deny that matter exists. There is nothing but God."

 

 "But, Baba, you cannot prove that matter is nothing. I see my physical body and your body with my own eyes. How can you expect me to believe that matter does not exist?"

 

 

The Master explained:

 

 To your mind matter exists, but only so long as your mind is working. When you are in sound sleep, matter does not exist to you. How then can you say that matter is real? It stands to reason that it is entirely dependent on the workings of your mind. It is an illusion — nothing more nor less than the work of your mind.

 

 Suppose when it is pitch-dark and you are walking somewhere, you happen to see an object and jump back, concluding that it is a man whom you take to be a robber.

 

 You become frightened, but fortunately see another man walking toward you. Both of you decide to catch the thief. You cautiously approach the object, but no sooner do you begin beating it than you discover to your surprise that it is not a robber but a boulder. It was a mere stone. But until you discovered this, to your mind it was a robber.

 

 Pointing to the wooden stool, one of the mandali asked if that wasn't matter. "To you it seems to be matter, but to me it is atma, a soul. What you call matter is nothing." Baba then narrated this story from the toddyshop days:

 

When I lived in Poona, one of my friends was named Kaikhushru Icecreamwala. He was an Irani who used to make and sell ice cream. He was in the habit of taking bhang [hashish mixed in milk], and once after drinking some, he went to sell ice cream. On his way, there was a small puddle, hardly half a foot wide. But to Kaikhushru that puddle was a lake! He actually ran and jumped ten feet over it in order to cross it.

 

 Now, if you had said to him, "This is not a lake, but a tiny puddle," do you think he would have believed you? He would have called you mad. To him it was a lake.

 

 Similarly, to you, all this before you is matter. But to me it is nothing. Just as matter does not exist in your sound sleep, so it does not exist in my awake state. What you experience unconsciously in the sound sleep state, we God-realized persons experience in the awake state. Our awake state is real, but yours is false. When you realize God you will see for yourself. The existence of matter is due to the existence of the mind. When the mind disappears, matter also vanishes.